Do you think Indians were more happy before Europeans arrived than they are now?

[Matthew Mussolini]

Sorry, to be politically correct they are "Native Americans". I'm told that calling them "Indians" is racist.

The schools have brainwashed Americans , and there is a lot of hate in America towards those who colonized America.

No one wants to mention that colonizing America gave natives plumbing and electricity. Without it they still might be defecating on the ground or not be able to have proper surgery for broken bones and what not!

I've had multiple broken bones and anesthesia and surgery was necessary to not be in chronic agony and misery.

I don't think Indians when they broke their bones were happier living like that.

Also, Aztecs were cutting out the hearts and dismembering Indians. Europeans put an end to that but yeah , Europeans did their genocides too. Every ethnicity is evil!

There is a remnant of people with integrity in each ethnicity, but they are an exception to the general rule. People are naturally selfish and wicked.

But you might be right that Natives were as a general rule more happy, but they might have often lived in great fear and pain as well.

The ways some of those native American tribes would wipe each other out and scalp people while they are still alive and let them live, burn people to death, enslave weaker tribes, torture people to death , and mutilate them, is not a reflection of them being very happy.

It really wasn't like it's portrayed in Pocahontas when you consider them carrying scalps, wearing skulls, human sacrifice, and divided tribes constantly at war. (Now, the wearing skulls and such would depend on which tribe, but indeed some of them did).


I think it's kind of cool actually and I like the more creepy tribes personally, plus love the Native American Shamanism, but to be some of the weaker tribes really sucked ass!

In 2020 my favorite statue on Capitol Hill was torn down because it honored the dude who discovered America. (Just kidding, it wasn't my favorite statue, and I don't like Christ Columbus or think there should be a Saint Christopher Columbus Holiday where school is canceled).

But yes, it was a damn nice statue that someone worked very hard creating, and Native Americans and liberals decided it needed to be destroyed. And yes, Capitol Hill looked better with the Christ Columbus statue.

I'm not gonna cry about it , but I wonder how far people will go with this. Will we one day rename Washington DC because "District of Columbia" has the name Columbus in it basically, and Washington owned slaves?

If we rename it the District of Harriet Tubman , and paint the white house black, make Doctor Suess books illegal, I really don't give a shit personally, but I do kind of give a shit if noble minded people are reduced to total and complete misery dealing with a bunch of liberals and their bullshit, political correctness, Socialism robbing intelligent harder working people of incentive to get ahead, and a growing secularization of everything that leaves people spiritually bankrupt, increases school shootings, increases crime, increases violence, increases teen suicides, and increases all types of immorality.

A lot of the slaves in America were already slaves in Africa. Some of them were actually treated relatively well in America compared to how they were treated in Africa. Even in the 20th Century, before Mussolini abolished slavery in Africa, the slaves weren't being provided for and genitals were amputated , and sometimes escaped slaves or POW's would have a hand and a foot amputated.

Many slave owners in America at least provided for them and treated them better than one should treat an animal. Just as it is frowned on to torture your dogs or horses now adays, it was as a general rule frowned on to torture or starve slaves, despite there were plenty of people who did.

Slavery is evil, depressing, cruel, and terrible, don't get me wrong. However, a lot of people refuse to admit that they are benefiting from their ancestors being brought over here, and some of the slaves had it better in America than they had in Africa. And no one wants to talk about the slavery that indigenous people practiced.

It's ugly to talk about , because atrocities committed against Africans and Native Americans is very disturbing, but it sounds quite disturbing and depressing before Europeans ever showed up. No one ever wants to address that.

[tumbling.dice]

Mmmm...no plumbing and electricity on The Mayflower.

However, subsequent visitors would bring bubonic plague, measles, smallpox, mumps, chickenpox, influenza, cholera, diphtheria, typhus, malaria, leprosy, and yellow fever. Not to mention guns, Christianity and slavery.

[Matthew Mussolini]

Mmmm...no plumbing and electricity on The Mayflower.

However, subsequent visitors would bring bubonic plague, measles, smallpox, mumps, chickenpox, influenza, cholera, diphtheria, typhus, malaria, leprosy, and yellow fever. Not to mention guns, Christianity and slavery.

Yes, originally no plumbing and electricity. Eventually as a result of Europeans showing up , civilization did offer them things like surgery , insulin for diabetics, eyeglasses for those with severe myopia, and united the Native American tribes actually. They really didn't have unity before Europeans arrived and were many divided tribes constantly at war with each other.

Yes, the diseases that Europeans brought with them were terrible and so are guns.

But slavery was actually practiced by Native Americans before Europeans ever showed up. They would conquer neighboring native American tribes and use the people as slaves or sometimes human sacrifice where hearts were cut out, torsos were dismembered, heads decapitated and flesh eaten.

I'm not saying Europeans didn't bring many evils to the continent. But it was plenty evil before Europeans arrived.

[Matthew Mussolini]

Keep in mind people, I think white people are just as savage and barbaric as Native Americans.

I think every ethnicity is savage by their nature and barbaric and selfish.

There is a remnant of altruistic people in each one , civilized people, but those are the exception to the general rule.

I would just prefer if we are going to bash one, we might as well bash them all.

[Audiogen]

It's pretty much impossible to compare. The Native Americans prior to the European settlers and the Native Americans of today have two completely different world views.

The mall on the closest reservation seems basically like any other mall but I don't know if there are issues on reservations that are not really apparent to the general public, also I knew a Native American guy and he was basically just like any other American, enjoyed a lot of the same music as me and enjoyed showing off his iphone and all that.

[Matthew Mussolini]

It's pretty much impossible to compare. The Native Americans prior to the European settlers and the Native Americans of today have two completely different world views.

The mall on the closest reservation seems basically like any other mall but I don't know if there are issues on reservations that are not really apparent to the general public, also I knew a Native American guy and he was basically just like any other American, enjoyed a lot of the same music as me and enjoyed showing off his iphone and all that.

I'm not saying they aren't like any other guy or girl as a general rule.

I lived with many in Montana institutions and such and some evidence would suggest they are far more prone to be alcoholics than the norm, but I'm not gonna stereotype them. Just an observation.

They are more likely to wear long hair if they are a male. Just an observation. They are more likely to burn sage and incense and chant to deceased people and ancestral spirits. Nothing wrong with that. I do the same thing of course.

Yet they did, at least the youth, many of them really struggle with a hatred and racism against white patients or inmates more than the other way around. I'm not saying most or half of them did. But it was actually very common to hear "Fuckin white people, cracker, get some sun on that skin pale face, white boy etc."

It was also socially acceptable to call white people by racial slurs in AA meetings , but insulting any other ethnicity was simply not tolerated. I don't mind people calling me racial slurs really, not much, but it should be just as accepted to shout a slur back. The double standards are what piss me off.

[Audiogen]

I'm not saying they aren't like any other guy or girl as a general rule.

I lived with many in Montana institutions and such and some evidence would suggest they are far more prone to be alcoholics than the norm, but I'm not gonna stereotype them. Just an observation.

They are more likely to wear long hair if they are a male. Just an observation. They are more likely to burn sage and incense and chant to deceased people and ancestral spirits. Nothing wrong with that. I do the same thing of course.

Yet they did, at least the youth, many of them really struggle with a hatred and racism against white patients or inmates more than the other way around. I'm not saying most or half of them did. But it was actually very common to hear "Fuckin white people, cracker, get some sun on that skin pale face, white boy etc."

It was also socially acceptable to call white people by racial slurs in AA meetings , but insulting any other ethnicity was simply not tolerated. I don't mind people calling me racial slurs really, not much, but it should be just as accepted to shout a slur back. The double standards are what piss me off.

I do believe they have a high rate of alcoholism.

That has not been my experience with them, but it sounds like the ones you knew would have preferred living before the European settlers.

[Irminsul]

Call him... Drunken Ira Hayes he won't answer anymore, not the whiskey drinkin Indian or the Marine that went to war..

[WritersPanic]

Keep in mind people, I think white people are just as savage and barbaric as Native Americans.

I think every ethnicity is savage by their nature and barbaric and selfish.

There is a remnant of altruistic people in each one , civilized people, but those are the exception to the general rule.

I would just prefer if we are going to bash one, we might as well bash them all.

Here you address the real value of such a discussion, the savage nature of ALL humans. We saw this when the Romans defeated the Carthaginians, The Mongols defeated the Islamists in Baghdad, the Spanish defeated the Mayans, the Zulus defeated the Ndwandwe, the Lakota defeated the Omaha and most of the other conflicts that the 50,000 year old genus have been party to. What comes out is the worst side of humanity no matter what continent the conflicts occurred. In the vast majority of examples the victors killed the men, subjugated the woman and sold the children. There is no race on this planet who can claim to be the exception to this.

All human races have murdered, raped, enslaved and tortured human beings. The very idea that we in this age seem to need a kind of scoring system in order to dig out a sliver of virtue is both laughable and preposterous. But if one is inclined to invest their case on this premise, then it seems the often cited claim that Africa is humanity's wellspring would indicate that these traits probably started there, as humans were evolving away from nature.

This would mean that black humans probably have the longest history of enslaving people and that it's likely the other races inherited it from them.

On the issue of the Mayflower, all ships of that age had plumbing and the diseases that wiped out so many of the natives had already done their damage before the pilgrims arrived. They were the result of the Spanish expeditions in the 15th century, only decades after the black death and all the other diseases that spun off from it. If anything the standards of cleanliness that the pilgrims brought with them in the early 17th century probably saved more natives in the long run than any diseases they may have carried over by that time.

Our current evolution of humans on this planet is all the same. Because we ALL wiped out the earlier kinds of humans on every continent. Trying to pin all of this on 1 race of people is both stupid and arrogant at the same time.

[Matthew Mussolini]

Here you address the real value of such a discussion, the savage nature of ALL humans. We saw this when the Romans defeated the Carthaginians, The Mongols defeated the Islamists in Baghdad, the Spanish defeated the Mayans, the Zulus defeated the Ndwandwe, the Lakota defeated the Omaha and most of the other conflicts that the 50,000 year old genus have been party to. What comes out is the worst side of humanity no matter what continent the conflicts occurred. In the vast majority of examples the victors killed the men, subjugated the woman and sold the children. There is no race on this planet who can claim to be the exception to this.

All human races have murdered, raped, enslaved and tortured human beings. The very idea that we in this age seem to need a kind of scoring system in order to dig out a sliver of virtue is both laughable and preposterous. But if one is inclined to invest their case on this premise, then it seems the often cited claim that Africa is humanity's wellspring would indicate that these traits probably started there, as humans were evolving away from nature.

This would mean that black humans probably have the longest history of enslaving people and that it's likely the other races inherited it from them.

On the issue of the Mayflower, all ships of that age had plumbing and the diseases that wiped out so many of the natives had already done their damage before the pilgrims arrived. They were the result of the Spanish expeditions in the 15th century, only decades after the black death and all the other diseases that spun off from it. If anything the standards of cleanliness that the pilgrims brought with them in the early 17th century probably saved more natives in the long run than any diseases they may have carried over by that time.

Our current evolution of humans on this planet is all the same. Because we ALL wiped out the earlier kinds of humans on every continent. Trying to pin all of this on 1 race of people is both stupid and arrogant at the same time.

Excellent post!

[Matthew Mussolini]

I do believe they have a high rate of alcoholism.

That has not been my experience with them, but it sounds like the ones you knew would have preferred living before the European settlers.

Some of them express that yes, they want all (as one of them told me) the "N*ggers to swim back to Africa with a white man in each arm".

[Irminsul]

Gather 'round me people
There's a story I would tell
'Bout a brave young Indian
You should remember well
From the land of the Pima Indian
A proud and noble band
Who farmed the Phoenix Valley
In Arizona land
Down the ditches a thousand years
The waters grew Ira's peoples' crops
'Til the white man stole their water rights
And the sparkling water stopped
Now, Ira's folks were hungry
And their land grew crops of weeds
When war came, Ira volunteered
And forgot the white man's greed

[Matthew Mussolini]

Gather 'round me people
There's a story I would tell
'Bout a brave young Indian
You should remember well
From the land of the Pima Indian
A proud and noble band
Who farmed the Phoenix Valley
In Arizona land
Down the ditches a thousand years
The waters grew Ira's peoples' crops
'Til the white man stole their water rights
And the sparkling water stopped
Now, Ira's folks were hungry
And their land grew crops of weeds
When war came, Ira volunteered
And forgot the white man's greed

Thank you. It's sad and true. But I'm just saying that every ethnicity has shown much greed, but it seems only socially acceptable to bash one.

[everything bagel]

This whole notion is predicated upon the idea that without European contact, modern Native Americans would be living in the stone age. The Aztec Empire was as advanced as any European nation at the time. The Iroquois was a full on federation with a governing body. The Cherokee had a written alphabet. Rubber, kayaks, snow goggles, and even the cable suspension bridge are all Native technologies we still use today. Hell they even had birth control and pain relievers. Yeah, I think they'd be just fine and would be much happier.

I can't think of a place the Europeans have colonized that wasn't an absolute disaster for the native populations.

[Din Djarin]

Even if the north american indians would still live in stone age conditions if the European colonists never stole their land... yes. I think they would on average be happier than now.

I would likely not be entirely accepting of the situation if conditions were reversed and my land was taken over by descendents of north american colonists who shat upon my ancestors, portrayed and treated them as savage thieves and rapists, while deliberately raping their way of life in the span of a few generations.
That I might appreciate 21th century plumbing would not make all the difference