Agnostics, make up your minds

[6-eyed]

Either God exists, or he doesn’t exist. There is no in between. Agnosticism is for pussies who cannot commit to an idea.

[Din Djarin]

Schrodingers God. He may exist, but we can not be certain. Hence, the most reasonable stance on this is to remain open about either possibility Agnostics are committed to reason and being open to the possibility. People who go with either stance and commit to it because of the idea they can be considered a pussy otherwise are fooling themselves. So no suprise its you in particular who came up with this thread :P

[Matthew Mussolini]

Either God exists, or he doesn’t exist. There is no in between. Agnosticism is for pussies who cannot commit to an idea.

No not really. Yes, I think atheism is impossible for me to become because I have too many things happen.

Like I built "the League of Ur" (Ur stands for United Religions and the city Abraham lived in and means "Ancient, Primordial") on someone named "Master Peter", the day I dreamed Eminem stole a fisherman's ring from pope Bennedict, then find a 22 K gold ring plate the day before Benedict's birthday (not knowing his birthday until the day of the dream after it), next to picture of Pope John Paul 2. Said "I will build my Church on Mastropietro" who I identified as a dismembered starfish where each limb regenerates into a new body, fish, and entity, and the next day I find a shirt with a starfish dated the year of her birth, and peter was a fisherman:


Now it was found with a pink top so doesn't sound like the most pious Churchy find, and maybe it wasn't from a pious Churchy spirit, maybe it was from a Demon, but no way all those coincidences take place in less than 48 hours by chance alone.

I dream of a golden ring getting stolen from a Pope the day I later find 22 carrot golden ring next to a Pope, made in Japan (Shinto is Japanese religion), identify someone as being a five pointed dismembered star fish growing into new entities, then find a five pointed star fish on a shirt, dated the year she was born.

The gold ring was dated 1984, and in the book 1984, America belonged to an Empire called "Oceania", hence the aquatic life on the shirt and the Pope wears a "Fisherman's ring".

her name is "Pamela Masterpietro" which means "Sweet Master Peter".

Also, as soon as I saw " Spongebob " I thought "What about Bob" movie? Where Doctor Marvin calls him " boob" lol.

And I spoke of Pamela's bosom being paradise the night prior, because Abraham's bosom is called "Paradise" in Scripture, and the "League of Ur" is her Religion, Ur was Abraham's town, I identify Mussolini as having the Religious confirmation name "Abraham Lincoln" on April 12, only later finding out that was the day Abraham Lincoln got into war with the south.... Before Abraham was, the league of Ur was.

So, it isn't coincidence. It is weird, it might be wrong or something, definitely didn't happen by chance , and I deal with stuff like this daily.

Absolutely no way that happens entirely by chance and I've had far weirder things happen.

I practice Shinto more fanatically than over 90% of Japanese people, and it's a Religion that few people practice who aren't Japanese, and less than 6 months after learning what Shinto was, I found a Japanese penny:



I live near what appear to be Shinto Obelisks, as Shinto Obelisks look different than Egyptian Obelisks, and it doesn't make sense why there would be Shinto Obelisks or a Japanese penny in the Twin Cities because most Asians her are from Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, or China. Few are from Japan.



And as I've mentioned, the Japanese military Jacket I found while praying for Japan, (nearby where I found the 1999 starfish shirt and bra actually)


These things are actually a common occurrence for me since 2015 when I started practicing Shinto. No one taught me Shinto. It was entirely a ghost who taught me to practice Shinto and surrender to the Japanese war dead years before I knew what Shinto or Amaterasu was. I didn't even like Japan.

But I obeyed and it brought far far more than Christianity ever did. And Shinto is completely compatible with Christianity. Shinto isn't Polytheistic. It has the potential to be, but Kami can just mean "Angel, Spirit", so it isn't Polytheistic or Monotheistic, it's simply "Belief in the supernatural".

However, they could be Spirits that I shouldn't be listening to that will bring only misery.

That's always a possibility.

The point I'm trying to make though, is after repeated signs and wonders that defy all natural explanation , because of how often they occur, and how unlikely they are to occur once, let alone over and over again, it's impossible for me to be an atheist!

[Matthew Mussolini]

But agnosticism sounds a lot better than atheism. Atheism one can never say they have a lot of evidence for. To be an atheist one must be aware that there are countless personal testimonies from people throughout history, sometimes miracles that tens of thousands witnessed simultaneously that converted atheists, like at Fatima.

Once an atheist is aware that such people are claiming they all had the same vision at the same time, there is also the fact that there is a medical Bureau at Lourdes that has documented hundreds of instantaneous complete cures that lacked all scientific and medical explanation. To be a confident atheist, one would have to refute such evidence, and I don't know how they could.

So the only logical other approach is to be a Theist or to be an agnostic.

Agnostic is more rational and it isn't being a pussy either.

The fact of the matter is, God is being an asshole! Not to everyone. God is very kind to many people. But there is a countless multitude that to them it just seems like God isn't there, and never was. To those people, yes, God is being an asshole to them. I don't know how to argue otherwise.

He's a God who claims he's a Father, could help his child getting raped and sodomized or be a friend to someone who is about to commit suicide , and hides himself , acting like he isn't there.

What a jerk!

But I shouldn't blaspheme. God has given me many graces and signs plus evidence. Blasphemy makes me look like an ungrateful brat in view of how much God has given me. So praise God!. But he treats a lot of people like shit. That's not even up for debate.

[Meliai]

I dont really see it as a bad thing to admit you just don't know.


and personally I think everyone is an agnostic at heart.
none of us really know.
and there's probably a seed of doubt even in the most militant of atheists or most devout of religious folk

[Dax]

God does not exist. Never has and never will. Do people really really still believe this fairy tale about an omnipresent invisible entity creating the universe and everything in it? Surely not.

[tumbling.dice]

I look at it this way. The Cosmos was either created or not created. I don't know which it is, and neither does anyone else. Even if we were to someday prove that is was created, that says nothing about the nature of the creator. Of course, if it was not created then there is no creator.

Anyway, why does anyone really care? What difference does it make in daily life? I'd like to know the prevalence of life in the galaxy, just out of curiosity, but my lack of knowledge in that area doesn't make life anymore difficult for me.

[Din Djarin]

I look at it this way. The Cosmos was either created or not created. I don't know which it is, and neither does anyone else. Even if we were to someday prove that is was created, that says nothing about the nature of the creator. Of course, if it was not created then there is no creator.

It could also be created indirectly. Which, if proven, would say SOMETHING about the creator(s). Maybe we are the creators and our mind is expanding the universe. Maybe we are in a mind of something godlike.

Anyway, why does anyone really care? What difference does it make in daily life? I'd like to know the prevalence of life in the galaxy, just out of curiosity, but my lack of knowledge in that area doesn't make life anymore difficult for me.

You kinda answered your own question. People care because they're curious. Not only about other possible life in the galaxy, but also why and how the galaxy is a thing in the first place, and why and how we are in it. It does not matter for our curiosity apparently that it does't gonna make a difference in our daily lifes. Although.... who knows to what extent it would matter if we really know how and why the galaxy and humans are a thing

[Youfreeme]

I don't agree. There is no way to know if there is a god, so how could you truly decide? I think agnosticism is the more humble and realistic option.

[tumbling.dice]

People care because they're curious.

Curious enough to kill each other?

[Amerijuanican]

After the things I've seen and experienced, the good and evil in the world and a few things I'd rather not include, I am a believer.

I don't drag on anyone who doesn't, as I believe people are awakened in their own time.

[Audiogen]

Oh yes, while we're at it, that Heisenberg was a puss, you know with his Uncertainty Principle that has only provided a basis for the current understanding of Quantum Mechanics.


Before calling out agnostics for fence sitting, theists will have to drop the idea of God as being ineffable and provide their case as to what God is. I don't think many people, even theists, ascribe to the description of the pre-Renaissance personal God... So then what is God?

If they cannot or are unwilling to do that, I'm not sure why anyone thinks it's up to agnostics to sort out a bunch of gibberish and woo woo.

[everything bagel]

There are many gods. Which one are you talking about?

[tumbling.dice]

There are many gods. Which one are you talking about?

Why, the one true God, of course.

[neonspectraltoast]

I know you're being facetious 6, but if it's not in one's heart to either seek God or to be completely dismissive of that which can't possibly be disproven, that is their right.

If the concept of a higher order interests you, it's perfectly sensible to appeal to it.

Atheism is the truly unreasonable position, in my eyes, though certain theistic stances are no more reasonable.