I’d rather be an atheist in a Christian society

[6-eyed]

I’d rather be an atheist living in a Christian society, than an atheist living in an atheist society.

Humans are a very prescriptive species; they desire to seek a higher power for spiritual guidance and leadership. Most humans anyway. As for myself, I’m an anomaly who doesn’t need an entity higher than me for guidance. Yet I understand that most humans want one.

Christian societies place God above their kings, presidents, and prime ministers. They see their god as the true direction. Christian societies have defied corrupt governments and church leaders through what they believed was God’s will. Atheist societies like those led by Stalin have no god, so they look to the government as the highest power. Without religion interfering, statists, socialists, and communists can make their governments the holy deities of the land. So it’s no wonder why so many atheists lean authoritarian-left. At least in a Christian society there is some resistance to authoritarian governments.

The Founding Fathers of the United States wrote the Bill Of Rights in a structure to enlighten the public that our rights were not gifts from a king or a government, but our natural human rights, (or God-given rights). The founders were Deists, and while some of them disfavored Christianity, they understood most of the common citizens of their new country were of the Christian faith. The founders did not want government to replace god, the way authoritarians do.

[neonspectraltoast]

You're an anomaly all right.

[Matthew Mussolini]

Everybody please like that OP post.

It deserves at least ten points coming from an agnostic.

It's totally true. Radical atheist governments that enforce secularism have placed faith in people as the highest power and the regime/government/society of frail, erroneous, fragile human beings becomes God.

[Audiogen]

Ideally I would prefer to live in an atheist society that doesn't suppress religion or elevate the government as the highest power.

From my understanding, Stalin grew up in a fairly religious household, even went to seminary as a youth, so I've contended that religion still may have shaped his views, even if he dropped some of the core beliefs.

I will concede that it does seem atheism has difficulty scaling to a societal level, it doesn't inherently provide an alternative to the existential comfort and tradition that religion does, so I think perhaps this is why there is a pattern of other institutions filling that ideological void in atheist societies.

[6-eyed]

Ideally I would prefer to live in an atheist society that doesn't suppress religion or elevate the government as the highest power.

From my understanding, Stalin grew up in a fairly religious household, even went to seminary as a youth, so I've contended that religion still may have shaped his views, even if he dropped some of the core beliefs.

I will concede that it does seem atheism has difficulty scaling to a societal level, it doesn't inherently provide an alternative to the existential comfort and tradition that religion does, so I think perhaps this is why there is a pattern of other institutions filling that ideological void in atheist societies.

Indeed it would be ideal to have an atheist society that didn’t suppress religion or elevate government. I have yet to see a god-free society or culture do that though.

At the end of the day, most people want to be left alone with their belief systems. It’s why I don’t care for the fringe evangelicals on the right, or the PC busybodies on the left. Because they are often the reason why we can’t have anything nice.

[Din Djarin]

Everybody please like that OP post.

It deserves at least ten points coming from an agnostic.

It's totally true. Radical atheist governments that enforce secularism have placed faith in people as the highest power and the regime/government/society of frail, erroneous, fragile human beings becomes God.

Most secularism in our societies was not enforeced by 'radical atheist governments'.

Also, we live in a mixed society. Ideally we would live in a mixed society were even extremist mindsets are tolerated and every different belief system is accepted (but not harmful or infringing actions based on them). To see it as an ideal to live in an atheist or whatever seems to suit you most society is a sign of being intolerant... likely intolerant feelings against being a minority in this aspect. Very human and not wrong to have such feelings at all. It depends how we act on them

[6-eyed]

Most secularism in our societies was not enforeced by 'radical atheist governments'.

Also, we live in a mixed society. Ideally we would live in a mixed society were even extremist mindsets are tolerated and every different belief system is accepted (but not harmful or infringing actions based on them). To see it as an ideal to live in an atheist or whatever seems to suit you most society is a sign of being intolerant... likely intolerant feelings against being a minority in this aspect. Very human and not wrong to have such feelings at all. It depends how we act on them

How is selecting a place to live a sign of intolerance? Every location on earth has societal advantages and disadvantages.

Problem I see is that most people are not smart enough to be atheists. The best way to be an atheist is to make yourself the center of your own inverse; be your own god. The problem is most people don’t make themselves interesting or remarkable enough to be the center of their universe. So they search for spiritual meaning elsewhere. And when they don’t find meaning with God, then they find meaning under a new religion, like socialism and wokeness.

[Din Djarin]

That's not what I said. I said:

To see it as an ideal to live in an atheist or whatever seems to suit you most society is a sign of being intolerant... likely intolerant feelings against being a minority in this aspect.

Because it implies living in a society where that is not the case is not ideal. Yet in most cases reality. Why is this reality not ideal?

[Meliai]

How is selecting a place to live a sign of intolerance? Every location on earth has societal advantages and disadvantages.

Problem I see is that most people are not smart enough to be atheists. The best way to be an atheist is to make yourself the center of your own inverse; be your own god. The problem is most people don’t make themselves interesting or remarkable enough to be the center of their universe. So they search for spiritual meaning elsewhere. And when they don’t find meaning with God, then they find meaning under a new religion, like socialism and wokeness.

Hmm.
I dont know if I agree with this. Making yourself your own God requires a degree of humility and a fair bit of ego dissolution. It isnt really about viewing yourself as the center of the universe but rather, recognizing that there's a consciousness in you that lies entirely outside the realm of self and is connected with all living things.

becoming aware of this doesn't require one to be interesting or remarkable. What constitutes interesting and remarkable is a human construct, whereas this god-like consciousness lies outside the realm of human construct.

Also I was going to make the same point asmo made, that you're thinking of atheistic societies in terms of enforced atheism, which isn't really a good example. Modern western society is becoming more and more secular and humanistic and less religious not by force but by a natural social evolution. We're not anywhere close to being a majority atheist society yet but I do think it's possible we'll evolve more in that direction one day and it won't resemble the Soviet Union or China or anywhere where the belief in God was/is prohibited

[Din Djarin]

I would ask WHY does putting yourself at the center of your own universe seem the best way to become an atheist? Is a religious sports fan who prays for their team to win not putting theirselves at the center?
I often described myself as an agnostic atheist, it is simply based on my belief in a deity or more. Not where I put myself. Why is putting yourself at the center of the universe the best way to be an atheist 6-eyed ? Do you connect some other purpose or meaning to being an atheist than just not belief in a deity or more?

[Audiogen]

The best way to be an atheist is to make yourself the center of your own inverse; be your own god. The problem is most people don’t make themselves interesting or remarkable enough to be the center of their universe.

I would argue that mindset mixed with power is actually the quickest way to get authoritarian governance in an atheist regime.


For instance, China's Supreme Leader had Christians replace portraits of Jesus with his own.

[Audiogen]

Also, I know there are some Christians that have ascribed to wokeness and probably many more that are pagan or believe in various new-age spiritual practices, so I think it's a fallacy to consider that movement as inherently atheist.

[6-eyed]

Hmm.
I dont know if I agree with this. Making yourself your own God requires a degree of humility and a fair bit of ego dissolution. It isnt really about viewing yourself as the center of the universe but rather, recognizing that there's a consciousness in you that lies entirely outside the realm of self and is connected with all living things.

becoming aware of this doesn't require one to be interesting or remarkable. What constitutes interesting and remarkable is a human construct, whereas this god-like consciousness lies outside the realm of human construct.

One needn’t be a narcissist to be the center of their own universe. Many find self satisfaction by helping and working with others. Lone wolves are never successful; humans need a team and a network. The reason behind most peoples morality is a belief in something more powerful than they are. Some believe in god, others believe in karma, some believe in nothing and the only thing keeping them moral is the law, and those beliefs are the trust in a higher power outside of their reach.

Also I was going to make the same point asmo made, that you're thinking of atheistic societies in terms of enforced atheism, which isn't really a good example. Modern western society is becoming more and more secular and humanistic and less religious not by force but by a natural social evolution. We're not anywhere close to being a majority atheist society yet but I do think it's possible we'll evolve more in that direction one day and it won't resemble the Soviet Union or China or anywhere where the belief in God was/is prohibited

Christianity is becoming less popular in the west due to cultural influences. Western civilization was built upon Christian values dating back a thousand years. Without a belief in a higher supernatural power, civilization won’t last long.

[6-eyed]

Also, I know there are some Christians that have ascribed to wokeness and probably many more that are pagan or believe in various new-age spiritual practices, so I think it's a fallacy to consider that movement as inherently atheist.

Yes I’m sure there are Christians who buy into the work cult. But at the end of the day they will put god above those people when it comes time to evaluate if the influencers of the woke cult are with keeping or not.

The religious people are the ones still promoting the nuclear family, the golden rule, and fight to maintain traditions like marriage and holidays that unify family and society together.

Plus you have to look at all the degeneracy being done in the name of atheism today. Congress has just banned family terms like mother, father, son, and daughter from hearings. Some say pedophila is a sexual preference. Abortions are empowering. Gender spectrum nonsense. Government being the high and mighty provider. The list goes on.

[6-eyed]

That's not what I said. I said:
To see it as an ideal to live in an atheist or whatever seems to suit you most society is a sign of being intolerant... likely intolerant feelings against being a minority in this aspect.

Because it implies living in a society where that is not the case is not ideal. Yet in most cases reality. Why is this reality not ideal?

If I’m an atheist or Diest living in a Christian society, I’m automatically a minority. Not every culture is intolerant to minorities.