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Green Equals Clean? I Don’t Think So.

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    Green Equals Clean? I Don’t Think So.

    Back in the day on HF, I once had the temerity to suggest that Greta Thunberg should rather concentrate more on her studies so that she could find out exactly how much pollution is going to be caused by electric vehicles, solar panels and wind turbines.

    According to the internet that renewable or clean energy produces no greenhouse gasses, no pollutants or toxic substances that could harm us or our environment. That’s sort of true but the real problem lies firstly in the production of these items and what will happen at the end of their lifespan.

    For example to make a single electric vehicle battery 500,000 pounds of raw material has to be mined, moved and then processed. Among these raw materials are lithium, nickel, cobalt and graphite. A single wind turbine requires 900 ton of steel, 2500 ton of concrete and 45 ton of non-recyclable plastic. The blades of a single wind turbine contain more plastic than five million smartphones. Also large amounts of copper is required for the production of electric vehicles, wind turbines and solar panels. It is estimated that about 800 billion ton of copper will be needed in the next 30 years, about the same amount as has been mined since the dawn of time.

    More than 60% of cobalt is strip mined in the Democratic Republic of Congo, a country with a more than abysmal record when it comes to most mining operations. Men, women and about 35,000 children work on these mines without even the most basic protective equipment such as gloves and face masks. In some villages the water in streams that they drink is contaminated by the discharge of waste from a mineral processing plant. Birth defects from pollution are common in the DRC.

    Currently China produces 70 to 80 % of the world’s graphite in Baotou in Inner Mongolia. Here a 10 square kilometer artificial lake of toxic effluent including vast amounts of heavy metals such as Mercury, has been created by graphite processing waste. This effluent seeps into the earth polluting the ground water.

    So what happens to these so called “clean, green non-polluting” items at the end of their life? Despite the manufacturers assurance, many millions of tons of electric car batteries, wind turbine blades and solar panels will eventually end up in landfills causing as much or even more pollution than their production did.

    Clean and Green? Never ever. Dirty and dark? You betcha!





    "The embers of our past lives lie smouldering within us awaiting the winds of remembrance to fan them in flames of reality." Dax.

    #2
    This isn't anything the people who believe in going this route don't know..

    Just because something isn't instantly perfect, it doesn't make it the wrong direction to move in.

    What is your solution? Carry on burning fossil fuels? Or have you got a better idea? That isn't meant to be sarcastic, I genuinely want to know. The way I understand it, we CAN'T keep going the way we have been. Yes, there are a LOT of problems that need solving, but I think they can be solved.

    What would you have us do?

    Comment


      #3
      I have no answer to your questions Jess. Even asking countries to try to lower their birthrate didn't work. See what happened in China.

      Conventional vehicles pollute the air ... electric vehicles polute the land,rivers,oceans. Which is worse? And at the end of the day is pollution of our atmosphere really going to cause any significant climate change?

      So where do people like you and I get our information on pollution & climate change from? The various forms of media of course. How do we know that what we read and hear is the truth? We don’t, but after of years of
      of watching and listening to them we believe these media sources. They claim that such and such a group of scientists at such and such universities around the globe have proof that our climate is changing. How do we know this is fact?

      A Purdue University survey found that 47% of climatologists challenge the idea that humans are primarily responsible for climate change and instead believe that climate change is caused by an equal combination of humans and the environment. True or falsr? I don't know ... do you?


      "The embers of our past lives lie smouldering within us awaiting the winds of remembrance to fan them in flames of reality." Dax.

      Comment


        #4
        There's always been an industry battle with electric and fossil fuel cars..
        Neither of those industries give a shit about the environment..
        It's psychological operation that keeps people occupied with it.

        Comment


        • SpaceMan
          SpaceMan commented
          Editing a comment
          electric car industry will die as soon as government incentives and subsidies stop

          its just a money scam

        #5
        Originally posted by Dax View Post
        [SIZE=16px][COLOR=#111111][FONT=Roboto]

        So where do people like you and I get our information on pollution & climate change from? The various forms of media of course. How do we know that what we read and hear is the truth? We don’t, but after of years of
        of watching and listening to them we believe [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Roboto]these media sources. They claim that such and such a group of scientists at such and such universities around the globe have proof that our climate is changing. How do we know this is fact?
        The fact that the climate is changing is pretty certain. You don't need to believe a scientist or a study, you can just look as visual satellite images of glaciers melting or listen to the accounts of people who still live off the land rather than supermarkets.

        And the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of human impact playing a big role in it. Even if we weren't, we should be working to combat it.

        Fewer humans would be ideal. I said for a loooong while that the natural solution would be a virus that wiped half of us out : ) but we didn't let it.

        I never trust one source, study or opinion. I just listen to a lot of them and make what I believe is a reasonable inference of what the truth is. Things are also always changing, new information, new data.

        ​​​

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by Osquirrell View Post
          There's always been an industry battle with electric and fossil fuel cars..
          Neither of those industries give a shit about the environment..
          It's psychological operation that keeps people occupied with it.
          I think that's why we don't want the industry to be in charge and make all the rules
          Sure, they're lobbying with their own agendas. Electric is only the solution if its energy sources are green, which they are not.

          Comment


            #7
            Fumes fuck the air, electric fucks the land.

            Take your pick.

            Comment


              #8
              Yeah, fossile fuel industry is great for the land

              Comment


                #9
                okay. fumes fuck the land and the air.
                electricity fucks the land.

                take your pick.

                Comment


                  #10
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                    #11
                    nope, toxic chemicals are used to make and produce solar panels. you'll have to think again, also batteries man. bad.

                    Comment


                    • Din Djarin
                      Din Djarin commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Another disadvantage is you can't use it when there's too less sun for a significant amount of time

                    #12
                    Nuclear power plants and hydrogen powered cars

                    Comment


                      #13
                      Or we could harvest free electricity from the ionosphere like Nikola Tesla wanted to do with his Wardencliffe tower

                      Comment


                        #14
                        'free'? Commie!

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Originally posted by 6-eyed View Post
                          Nuclear power plants and hydrogen powered cars
                          Nuclear is great until it isn't anymore

                          If we could at the very least get away from building them on fault lines lol, might be helpful

                          Comment

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