The Concept of Never Co-habiting in a Romantic Relationship

[Jessica]

Recently I've thought several times about the idea I might never choose to live with a romantic partner again. Then I happened to come across a video of a woman talking about exactly that. This woman has a long term partner who she says she is perfect for her, and she loves him, and she never intends to move in with him. There were comments in the video from people who feel and do the same, and even people who are co-parenting, in a romantic relationship, and still not living together.

Like with the choice to not have children, I think these options need to be talked about more. Because we're kind of brought up with this very narrow idea of what a committed relationship is. That marriage is always part of it (that one has changed a lot in the last two decades), that having children is just what you do next (I used to assume I would have kids - it was only when I heard someone talk about choosing not to that I considered that as an option), and that you always live with a long term monogamous partner.

I feel like retaining that level of independence would suit me, and that it would not diminish the potential intimacy and closeness. I can't see any strong benefits to living together full time.

[Pete's Draggun]

Jessica

Is the whole idea of conception, pregnancy, child birth, and possibilities of some body side effects, might endure you not to have children?

Or

Would you be open to a surrogate?

[Meliai]

I watched a Teal Swan video recently where she hypothesizes that if you're a person who has a great need for independence and space, it's likely because you have some sort of enmeshment trauma that makes it difficult for you to be authentic around people all the time (because people disrespected your boundaries as a child, and so you feel you need a lot of alone time to recharge those boundaries, so to speak).

And it's really got me thinking.

I went into the video thinking nah I just need space because i'm naturally an introvert, but came out of the video thinking ohhhh yeah that's me.

My family is probably the poster family for enmeshment trauma lol, and as the youngest I feel like I caught the brunt of having my boundaries stepped all over, well into adulthood.

and thinking back to my 20s, I was with my friend group all the time, and I had roommates, and I never felt the need to be alone because I felt I could be authentic with my friends and roommates. I was rarely alone then. I valued alone time as a kid and I valued alone time when I was with my last partner, and I really value it now because I feel like most people i see on a regular basis also drive me a little nuts, but there was this entire era of my life where I really didn't need to be alone at all and I still felt very happy and balanced most of the time.

Teal Swan makes the point that humans are social creatures. Introversion doesn't really fit our evolutionary journey as social creatures, its more of a maladaptation.

Anyways long ramble but this thread made me think of that because my first instinct was to think that living separately from a partner would suit me as well, but I think a lot of that is because of fear of intimacy and also just because i've gotten so used to carving out a lot of alone time to soothe the raw parts. It just seems like that's an integral part of my personality. But maybe it actually isn't.
I'm trying to orient myself towards living the most authentic life I can and I think ...when I meet someone and am in a relationship again, I would really have to give this a lot of thought and determine that whatever I wanted to do, live with them or live separately, was decided for the right reasons rather than out of fear or out of maladaptive patterns.

side note, I haven't even decided if Teal Swan is totally correct. I'm sure even when humans lived in close knit tribes they still had a chance to wander off alone sometimes, and probably enjoyed it. Being alone is awesome. But so is having friends and a partner you can be around most of the time and never get tired of them or feel off balance because of it. And I do think humans are naturally more oriented towards the latter and towards living with other people rather than alone.

[WritersPanic]

If you can afford to maintain 2 households, where's the issue? For many years my wife and I slept in different beds because she was inclined to travel all over one at night. The idea of separate homes is something we would not be able to afford for over a decade. But we came close to living apart with all the travel jobs I was doing. I lived in the Caribbean for a year, Wisconsin for a year, New York for a year.

All it did was make me wish I was at home. Financially we are already separated, she owns everything, I don't own anything (my clothes and my pot excluded). I worked my ass off to keep her out of debt through her Masters, as I am now doing with daughter unit.

[Jessica]

If you can afford to maintain 2 households, where's the issue? For many years my wife and I slept in different beds because she was inclined to travel all over one at night. The idea of separate homes is something we would not be able to afford for over a decade. But we came close to living apart with all the travel jobs I was doing. I lived in the Caribbean for a year, Wisconsin for a year, New York for a year.

All it did was make me wish I was at home. Financially we are already separated, she owns everything, I don't own anything (my clothes and my pot excluded). I worked my ass off to keep her out of debt through her Masters, as I am now doing with daughter unit.

Yeah, the comments on that video had a lot of people talking about not being able to afford to not cohabit.. so what do they do if they're single?

It sounds even worse when put like that! How many people are getting and staying in relationships for the financial ease? It might work for some but I'd prefer my relationships not be founded or maintained for that purpose.

Off topic, you sound like a good husband and dad, and they're lucky to have you. I hope the wife appreciates what you've done.

[Jessica]

Teal Swan makes the point that humans are social creatures. Introversion doesn't really fit our evolutionary journey as social creatures, its more of a maladaptation.

Regarding the whole post, I think it's going to be one of those things that is true for some but less for others. Varying degrees. I'll definitely consider it, but my instinct is that it doesn't apply to me.

I'm just very specific about how I like things to be, and my environment, and want total control over it :-) which may or may not be healthy but it's how it is. I've done both, and I can do both, but one feels preferable. I envision in the ideal relationship we'd spend significant time at each others houses. I feel like that being always a choice is kind of nice. Also there are things like.. I don't really want to live with a meat eater again but if I don't have to have it in my kitchen I don't care.

the part I quoted I take issue with, I don't think it's correct at all. Because I am both extremely social, and extremely introverted. I don't think they're remotely at odds with each other. I'd also say that introversion has most likely been an important part of our mental/spiritual evolution.

[Jessica]

Jessica

Is the whole idea of conception, pregnancy, child birth, and possibilities of some body side effects, might endure you not to have children?

Or

Would you be open to a surrogate?

I did briefly consider being a surrogate.. just to see what it's like to be pregnant and give birth, because it's a pretty astounding thing, and it'd be nice to do that for someone who needed it.
But when I think of giving birth, I actually feel a bit sick. I shudder involuntarily lol so it's probably a bad idea.

[Pete's Draggun]

Jessica

Would you be open to another woman to be your surrogate?

......And just be handed your child after birth from surrogate.

[Jessica]

Pete's Draggun Absolutely not. I love kids but I don't want one full time. I don't feel it aligns with my purpose here, either.

[Undies]

Childbirth sounds just awful. Seems like you would have to be pretty damn selfless to do that and not even keep the kid.

I can see the benefits of cohabitation and of not. I don't think either one is the right answer, it just depends on the relationship. I don't even know which I would really prefer. I do think the financial argument is silly. People live alone all the time.

[Jessica]

Oh, absolutely there isn't a right and wrong to it. But we're only socialised to see one way of doing things, hence discussion about it being worthwhile.

[Jessica]

and yeah it does sound awful, but come on, if you knew your body was capable of manufacturing a whole new human inside it, you'd surely be just the tiniest bit curious about what that felt like? it really was the tiniest bit though; my consideration of the idea lasted about three hours.

[Undies]

Jessica of course, I'm curious about pretty much everything. I'm sure I would think about it for a second too, but I am pretty confident I would also stop considering within 3 hours.

[WritersPanic]

Yeah, the comments on that video had a lot of people talking about not being able to afford to not cohabit.. so what do they do if they're single?

It sounds even worse when put like that! How many people are getting and staying in relationships for the financial ease? It might work for some but I'd prefer my relationships not be founded or maintained for that purpose.

Off topic, you sound like a good husband and dad, and they're lucky to have you. I hope the wife appreciates what you've done.

Humans have been doing it since before we had money. Resources are resources and consolidation becomes villages.

As for spousal unit, she owns my soul. We're about to see 30 years hitched, so I suppose I still rock her world the way she rocks mine. It's never been a 50-50 thing with us. Instead we adopted the orthodox position that we are to each give 100% to the marriage, as if it was an entity unto itself. It seems to have worked out. In over 30 years she has never messed with my stash, she doesn't imbibe like my aged hippy self. Her idiosyncrasies still revolve around Louisiana and her family's metaphysical insanity. You never know when a chicken foot will drop.

[everything bagel]

Why being able to appreciate something that isn't what I would do means female world leaders would suck, I have no idea, but you've just done a stellar job at demonstrating why the male ones are doing so poorly at it.

[Meliai]

haha yeah that was the sickest of burns

[Amerijuanican]

Hillary would have made an excellent President, and Bill would have been a stellar First Dude.

[neonspectraltoast]

I just want a girl with plenty of money to be my sugar mama. And like, I'll clean her house and make her dinner. Like an awesome pet. I don't cost very much. That's what I want.

[Jessica]

6-eyed oh there is definitely a market for what Andy is describing. If he's serious, he should look for a website.

[WritersPanic]

Learn to play shuffleboard, bridge, Gin Rummy and Canasta. Then start hanging around on Bingo night.

[Jessica]

that's very old fashioned advice, WP. we're in the future, now.

https://sugarmummyfree.com/category/sugar-mummy-in-usa/sugar-mummy-iowa/

[Tropical Breeze]

I don't like the idea of living with someone either. I like having plenty of alone time. Maybe just occasionally stay over each others place from time to time and travel and hotel together.

[Jessica]

Yes, agree. I would imagine travelling together being the living together part.

[Din Djarin]

Recently I've thought several times about the idea I might never choose to live with a romantic partner again. Then I happened to come across a video of a woman talking about exactly that. This woman has a long term partner who she says she is perfect for her, and she loves him, and she never intends to move in with him. There were comments in the video from people who feel and do the same, and even people who are co-parenting, in a romantic relationship, and still not living together.

Like with the choice to not have children, I think these options need to be talked about more. Because we're kind of brought up with this very narrow idea of what a committed relationship is. That marriage is always part of it (that one has changed a lot in the last two decades), that having children is just what you do next (I used to assume I would have kids - it was only when I heard someone talk about choosing not to that I considered that as an option), and that you always live with a long term monogamous partner.

I feel like retaining that level of independence would suit me, and that it would not diminish the potential intimacy and closeness. I can't see any strong benefits to living together full time.

I think having a woman in a caravan on a neighbouring patch of land instead of in my crib could be ideal :-D

[Jessica]

too close. a ten minute walk minimum sounds about right :-)

[Din Djarin]

Sounds very sensible yes, i concur

Jessica

[Pete's Draggun]

I know this woman in her late 40s. (49 I think)
She married in her 20s, had 2 kids, then got divorced

She re-married again in her late 30s, had 2 kids, then got divorced

Now she's in a committed monogamous relationship with a guy for about 5 years living separately with him, and she says it's" the best way to be."



Off topic
Her first husband, is a Beta male
Her second husband, is a Beta male
Her guy friend now, is a Beta male

I understand why she wants to live separately from him.

And....

I completely understand why women give up on dating and committed relationships.

[Youfreeme]

I love living together. But I also loved living alone. Ultimately I would be sad if my s/o didn’t want to live with me. It’s a special connection to have with someone, and I would miss it. I find the adjustment from living alone to together difficult though.

[lode]

I said this in Pete’s thread. Or started to and walked away because I have ADD. No problem with that if that’s what you’re looking for... But I’m old school I suppose. My life is really good and I want to share it. There are great things about living separately. Never have to share the thermostat. Never have to come to consensus about stuff… I know what I want. But my days are always better when I wake up and she’s there.

I do think co-habitation was mostly a thing in the past out of necessity. It’s much less so today.

I read this study a bit ago 6 would probably love it. The paradoxical decline of women’s happiness. Basically that while women’s life’s have objectively improved over the past 45 years, they subjectively indicate being less happy.

https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/pdf/Intellectual_Life/Stevenson_ParadoxDecliningFemaleHappiness_Dec08.pdf

There a number of simplicities and poor assumptions you could make taking that at face value. But I suppose it’s possible that that the majority of people are wired to traditional relationships, and those have just become harder in the modern world, because whatever weird side effects being in constant contact with the whole species is doing to us.