Apocalyptic Card Game

[WritersPanic]

We don't have another game forum, so I dropped this here.

Some time ago, whilst stoned and drinking I had a box full of various mixed cards from a sale at DragonCon. I didn't know what I'd get so I made an offer on the whole box. It had everything from Bicycle Pinochle to Uno cards and several from other games like YuGiOh, Pokemon, a few Monopoly cards and some from Trivial Pursuit. I got maybe 4 cards out of the whole box that were worth the purchase. The rest are, somewhere, probably the attic or the basement.

So what I considered was, after a generic apocalypse (disease, nuclear war, alien invasion etc) as people are putting their lives back together, there will be a lot of down time. So what happens if you can't get a complete deck of cards together?

That's when I thought a game could be created to take advantage of mixed, unrelated game cards.

But the rules have to be easily conveyed. Number cards are easy to figure as are face cards. But what effect will an Uno reverse card have? Or a Community Chest card?

Cards might become valuable, so every one of them has to be considered for a position in the game somehow.

How does a hand with a 2, 5, Blue Eyes White dragon, Skip (uno) and a Pikachu card face off to a hand with a Queen, 7, Polymerization, Free Transfer (loop) and a 3 of wands?

[Kick Frenzy]

Oh.
Oh my.

I LOVE this idea!!!

(I also think it might be worth changing "Video Games" to "Games (Video, Board, etc)".)

I imagine cards would be separated into generic, standard categories.
Something like:
- power source
- effects
- objects
- characters

Your example above would break down to:
- power source: 2, 5, 7
- effects: Skip, Polymerization, Free Transfer
- objects: 3 of Wands
- characters: Blue Eyes White Dragon, Pikachu, Queen

So we would get:

Hand 1
----------
2,5
Skip
(n/a)
BEWD, Pikachu

Hand 2
---------
7
Polymerization, Free Transfer
3 of Wands
Queen

Notes:
- 2,5,7 used like lands, mana, or other power source
- Skip would obviously be used to skip the other players turn, or chosen player if more than 2 players
- Free Transfer could be used to avoid Skip, possibly more useful in a partners version, possibly prevents character action
- Polymerization may not be usable in this hand, but would allow for gathering ingredients (monstrous or otherwise) for another card that requires them

----

That's all I got for now.
But it wouldn't necessarily need to all go in that direction.
It's possible a completely different game could be made with those cards, where it's more like a traditional card game of Poker or something.

[WritersPanic]

One of the problems with cards that change the direction of play is that people will be gambling with this game. Such a card being played to skip over another player's turn will probably get someone stabbed.

Another issue is with the nature of the cards. It's unlikely the rules for their original games will be remembered well enough to make any rules based on this. It would assume the player's are all even with this knowledge, so it would be fixed from the start.

So the valuation has to be based on a generic quantizing of the original rules most card games share in common. Rules a wider audience would readily adopt.

I like your take on this. It's precisely the energy something like this would need. Who knows, we might come up with something that becomes a phenomenon at ComiCon.DragonCon. Or, it survives into a real apocalypse.

What to call it though????

aPokerLypto

Deal the Damned Cards

Cards!

Lose it All

??????

[Kick Frenzy]

First of all... did the font just change?

Second, the name is always a tough (but really fun) part.
Maybe, Ball of Wax?
Or perhaps, Panoply #?
(where # = number of cards held in hand, agreed upon by both/all players)... so like, "Hey, wanna play Panoply 5?"

Also, I was unaware we were taking stabbings into account, so that brings in a new element!!!
So, with something like Skip, it would either be treated like a Joker or discarded, I imagine.
But I really like the idea of using any cards like that as Jokers, to be included in that role or set aside as they are in some games.

You made a good point about people not knowing the origin of the cards.
Like how I'm not sure what to do with 3 of Wands.
Is it treated as a 3? Some type of offense or defense?
It's a sticky area, but I think it can be hammered into submission for any card.

I think I'd need to grab a handful of random cards and actually hold them and look at them to get a good feel for what I would suggest.
But I'd try to go with whatever felt like the most generic, everyperson, instinctive tendencies would be.

[WritersPanic]

First of all... did the font just change?

Second, the name is always a tough (but really fun) part.
Maybe, Ball of Wax?
Or perhaps, Panoply #?
(where # = number of cards held in hand, agreed upon by both/all players)... so like, "Hey, wanna play Panoply 5?"

Also, I was unaware we were taking stabbings into account, so that brings in a new element!!!
So, with something like Skip, it would either be treated like a Joker or discarded, I imagine.
But I really like the idea of using any cards like that as Jokers, to be included in that role or set aside as they are in some games.

You made a good point about people not knowing the origin of the cards.
Like how I'm not sure what to do with 3 of Wands.
Is it treated as a 3? Some type of offense or defense?
It's a sticky area, but I think it can be hammered into submission for any card.

I think I'd need to grab a handful of random cards and actually hold them and look at them to get a good feel for what I would suggest.
But I'd try to go with whatever felt like the most generic, everyperson, instinctive tendencies would be.

That's when it hit me actually. When I was looking at a box of cards. I used the Polymerization card intentionally in the example. Who would know what that card even means in 2050? So card games with deep, intensive rules and variables will be quantized down to really simple elements. There may also be literacy issues to consider. So polymerization might only be a valuable card because it has so many letters! Skip only has 4. (Actually Skip has only one, testicle that is).

So that might become a rule, any card with letters, the largest letters are counted and equal the value of the card (minus so many points for not being a number card).

I think face cards will also be interesting. Some are menacing, some are sexy, some are cuddly and cute (oh shit, he's got a rainbow brite card, but which one?)

3 of wands is from the Tarot deck, the one with the Lovers card and the Death card!

There used to be a card game called Pot. I wonder if any of those are still around?

And the overall number of cards becomes an issue. As well as the size and shape. Dealing cards will have to be a deliberate event with no potential for casual slight of hand. Or maybe the dealer is blindfolded and told to make a stack for each player of a fixed number of cards.

[Kick Frenzy]

I know the Pot card game you're talking about.
It's probably still easy to find.

I have an unopened Beer! card game, which was made by the same people I think.
It's possible I have the Pot game somewhere...

[WritersPanic]

Yes, in this thread fonts are doing weird shit.

[Kick Frenzy]

Seems to be back to normal now.

[Kick Frenzy]

That's when it hit me actually. When I was looking at a box of cards. I used the Polymerization card intentionally in the example. Who would know what that card even means in 2050? So card games with deep, intensive rules and variables will be quantized down to really simple elements. There may also be literacy issues to consider. So polymerization might only be a valuable card because it has so many letters! Skip only has 4. (Actually Skip has only one, testicle that is).

So that might become a rule, any card with letters, the largest letters are counted and equal the value of the card (minus so many points for not being a number card).

I think face cards will also be interesting. Some are menacing, some are sexy, some are cuddly and cute (oh shit, he's got a rainbow brite card, but which one?)

3 of wands is from the Tarot deck, the one with the Lovers card and the Death card!

There used to be a card game called Pot. I wonder if any of those are still around?

And the overall number of cards becomes an issue. As well as the size and shape. Dealing cards will have to be a deliberate event with no potential for casual slight of hand. Or maybe the dealer is blindfolded and told to make a stack for each player of a fixed number of cards.

I think boiling cards down to a numerical value based on the funny shapes (letters) takes it too far.
Even in a post-apocalyptic world, people will continue to learn to read and write.
Although it's entirely possible the meaning of the cards and what games they come from would be lost.
Hell, there's tons of people right now that would have no idea how to use any TCGs.

You mentioned dealing cards, which brings up a good point.
Is this a game where anyone can break out a deck and deal people in, like traditional cards?
Or is it a game where people have their own decks like with TCGs and compete with those?

Knowing that would go a long way to informing the rules and what each card counts for.
For instance, numbers being just numbers or counting as resources like land or mana.

Personally, I think it would be cool to come up with rules for both styles of play.
(Although, traditional cards might boil down to "just use the numbers, face cards are face card with females as queen, males as king, and creatures as jokers".)

[WritersPanic]

I think boiling cards down to a numerical value based on the funny shapes (letters) takes it too far.
Even in a post-apocalyptic world, people will continue to learn to read and write.
Although it's entirely possible the meaning of the cards and what games they come from would be lost.
Hell, there's tons of people right now that would have no idea how to use any TCGs.

You mentioned dealing cards, which brings up a good point.
Is this a game where anyone can break out a deck and deal people in, like traditional cards?
Or is it a game where people have their own decks like with TCGs and compete with those?

Knowing that would go a long way to informing the rules and what each card counts for.
For instance, numbers being just numbers or counting as resources like land or mana.

Personally, I think it would be cool to come up with rules for both styles of play.
(Although, traditional cards might boil down to "just use the numbers, face cards are face card with females as queen, males as king, and creatures as jokers".)

I see it as a coffee can full of cards that people either travel with or keep on hand. But the game would be whatever the local deck was. However, it might present an opportunity to randomize that most card games didn't get a century ago. So let's say a caravan comes to the fishing village. A friendly game of cards is considered. Since the locals have been playing with the same cards for a while, the game has stagnated.

So what the host and guest do is first count each other's cards for an accurate assessment or select a number of cards for a merging. Then just dump them all into a pile and count them into 2 even piles. One pile is retained by the host and one by the guest. The guest deck is used for the game for as long as they are in town. The host deck is for the town so they get essentially a new game to play during the time between card swap opportunities.

I know what you mean about decks competing against other decks, I've seen many competitions. But that sort of thing requires a supporting sponsor of a sort. In the current case, the maker of the cards. I don't know how that might work with random card assortments.

We have already carried the discussion further than I thought in practical terms. Prior to that I was just taking for granted a rule system would evolve for such a game (or series of games, "Got any 5s?" "Nope, go flounder").


Also, I didn't mean the base the number from the letters, just count the letters and use that number. Polymerization is a 14 point card! And only use the biggest letters. Fine print would lead to arguments (trust me on this).

[Kick Frenzy]

Hmm.. with that new explanation, I'm thinking it could be called "Coffee Can" or "Can Can".
I like the idea of being able to freshen up decks by "combine and divide" (hmm, game name?), whether it's through dumping into piles, trading piles of cards neither wants to keep, or just through playing for keeps... it's a good concept here.

It's a tricky thing to figure out though, because on one hand it's considering what would work in a semi-literate apocalyptic society, but on the other hand it's making a game that could be played at Cons.

And your right, this discussion has gotten pretty deep, rather quickly.
It's fun though!
I get to use my thinking cap!

(But I still don't think "letters count as numbers" is the best utilization of card types.)

[WritersPanic]

Hmm.. with that new explanation, I'm thinking it could be called "Coffee Can" or "Can Can".
I like the idea of being able to freshen up decks by "combine and divide" (hmm, game name?), whether it's through dumping into piles, trading piles of cards neither wants to keep, or just through playing for keeps... it's a good concept here.

It's a tricky thing to figure out though, because on one hand it's considering what would work in a semi-literate apocalyptic society, but on the other hand it's making a game that could be played at Cons.

And your right, this discussion has gotten pretty deep, rather quickly.
It's fun though!
I get to use my thinking cap!

(But I still don't think "letters count as numbers" is the best utilization of card types.)

I agree actually, just counting letters is selling the card's potential off.

So we start at the other end, evolve the game forward from the beginning; number cards. Develop a simple game that only uses number cards. Then make it more complex in some way, patterns perhaps.

Next maybe human/face cards. How to position them and infuse them into the numeric card game.

Then, what the fuck happens when someone throws down a 6, an 8, Park Place and a Get out of jail card?

[Kick Frenzy]

Ok, starting with just number cards.

Would the cards be held in hand or played on "the table"?
To me, if we're considering it in an apocalyptic setting, I would think holding the cards in your hand would be more instinctual as a way to protect one's property.
Which would mean no shared discard pile either.

How's that sound so far?

[WritersPanic]

Ok, starting with just number cards.

Would the cards be held in hand or played on "the table"?
To me, if we're considering it in an apocalyptic setting, I would think holding the cards in your hand would be more instinctual as a way to protect one's property.
Which would mean no shared discard pile either.

How's that sound so far?

Yea, you want to be able to play it in a tree as swarms of the undead drag by below.

Discarding is interesting, common in many games.

I hate to say it, but maybe starting from winning hands and working back is the only way to work this out.

[WritersPanic]

Imagine this:

You check in with your bucket of cards. They are counted to verify actual card quantity with no abstract interpretation. Then you walk down the curved carpeted ramps at the Marriott to toss your bucket onto a trampoline that is being vibrated from below with 50,000 watts of Hip Hop or the B-52s. Your cards as well as the cards of everyone else in the line will be dancing and swirling with the help of fans canted to 17 degrees in a circle around the trampoline's perimeter. The fans are gimbled and tilt upward so the cards form patterns like Starlings flying over town.

By the time you reach the next landing there are thousands of cards and a thin transparent net to keep them contained in the vortex. When you get to the top, you present your can. A damper is opened and the can fills with cards.

You continue down a hallway and are directed to an individual room where another count is made of the cards in the can. Any overage or shortage is adjusted and the excess cards are returned to the vortex. Or if cards are needed, the vortex has a port for a glass box so the operator can catch a close approximation, going over a bit to deliver the exact number of cards needed to complete the set.

You sign off and your can is covered with 3 successive layers of heat shrinking packaging plastic. A ribbon is wrapped around the can and sealed to the other end with a wax impression of the date and time.

You are then escorted to the gaming floor or to a locker room if you choose, which exits to the gaming floor. Depending on your previous reputation in the game, you are assigned to your first pit (concrete table with ringed concrete bench). You face your opponents, all of them in full regalia and ready to smoke your ass. Your face paint, applied by a hot Asian number in the locker room for $600, totally obscures your identity. Only the can and the fitness tracker on your wrist know who you are. For now, you're a number.

Drinks are placed on the table by the staff. The opponents turn and walk slowly in a circle around the table, watching a plain card in the center of the table burn. When the flame is gone, they stop and sit. Then make a toast. The process is fully randomized.

The game begins.

[WritersPanic]

By the way, cards have 2 sides. When they are parts of disconnected sets, both sides could come into play.

[Kick Frenzy]

Funny you should mention that... I had started considering it, too, on one of my recent replies.
It's a good thing to keep in mind!

[Kick Frenzy]

Imagine this:

[the whole story]

The game begins.

Wow!
I love how you wrote that out!

I mean, I don't expect an apocalyptic shanty town to have that kind of set-up... but a post-apocalyptic DragonCon?
That I could totally imagine.

But irregardless of how and where such a system could be used, I just wanna bask in the vivid (and amusing) descriptions of your illustrative story!